Reponse to 'pro-creation'

My apologies to the user 'Pro-creation.' I didnt see your comment on the article I posted in February until now.

you said:
I agree with you about our inability to choose. However, I would go further to say that once the Holy Spirit empowers us to choose, we must choose Christ. This is because it is His purpose to convict us of sin (John 16:7-11). This conviction leads us to repentance and subsequent faith. Even that faith is the gift of God (Eph.2:8-9)....

I agree that we must choose Christ in that we as humans are created to make such a choice, and when given the freedom to, by the giving of the Holy Spirit, we are driven to choose Him. Therefore, making salvation dependent on His choice not ours.

John 16:7-11

7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

Conviction is the realization that there is a standard of good(not only established, but also defined by God) and that one has gone against that standard. A man cannot come to this realization without the Holy Spirit (Ergo, Christ stating above the advantage of the coming of the Helper). Having the Holy Spirit, and being therefore convicted, a man is then able to repent. Although, I do not think that faith is result of repentance but that repentance a result of faith.

Free will, Election, and the Difference between Will and Ability.

Ephesians 1:4-6

4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love
5He predestined us to (P)adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Can a man as a fallen being and one who is not good (for only God is good) choose good? choose God? And if so, why do we need the Holy Spirit? Is there an argument for Arminianism that does not undercut God's sovereignty?

I Propose that God elects/chooses b/c we cannot in our fallen state choose Him, we are simply unable in our sinful nature. Some may ask, 'what about free will?' Free will was spent on sin in the Garden of Eden. It was given to humans as the pinacle of creation, and it was tossed aside in a trade for deception and disobedience. Then, b/c God loved us, He sent Jesus as the Second Adam, the second one who had the ability to choose to sin and the ability to choose not to sin (which without the Holy Spirit we do not have) and chose, all His time on earth, to not sin, and then suffered the consequences of a sinner for sinners. And b/c He did this:

John 5:21-23

21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

and further:


John 5:24-27

24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

Can a man of flesh and sin hear the Word without God first evoking a change in him?


Also:

John 6:61-65

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

A man WILL not go to the Father through Christ simply b/c he CANNOT until God changes that man.

Are we then robots?? Forced into salvation, into love? Are we not robots NOW? Due to our lack of ability to choose God, are we not robots? Slaves to sin?(as Paul says) Are we not freed for freedom?(Gal 5:1) Freedom to choose Christ, b/c He first chose us? By God choosing us we are given freedom to choose Him. Are we then able to deny Christ in His election of us? We men might be able to reject the Holy Spirit for a short time, we can run...but we cannot hide from Him. I do not think we can deny Christ completely b/c once the Holy Spirit has penetrated our souls we cannot stop God from choosing/seeking God. Therefore, it is HIS choice that saves, not ours.


What about witnessing or evangelism? Why should I try to spread the Word? What's the point if God chooses?

2 Timothy 2:9-11

9for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned.
10For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.
11It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;

Our work, our seeking out others as believers has a small role as exhibited here by Paul. We belong to Christ, and we are to act for His purposes. Granted, if we do not, this will not stop Christ's purpose or election. Just as Paul does we should count it as a great honor if Christ chooses to work through us(having the Holy Spirit) for His Divine purposes.


What about responsibility for our sins and hell?

Acts 2:22-24
22"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--
23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
24"But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

Peter says that God predetermined Jesus' deliverance to death, but also holds responsible those men who handed Him over. in the same way the men whose wills are not broken by God will be held responsible for this.


This might be all my opinion. However, I think this is what the scriptures say...not me.